Wednesday, February 08, 2006

An Amona moan

Sorry for the delay, had to wait until I calmed down (which is why you won't see anything about rampaging Muslims and freedom of expression just yet!). A couple of words for the settler movement:

1. Policemen and soldiers are violent, they are trained to act brutally - anywhere in the world, but especially in a country where they frequently have to put down violent demonstrations.
2. If you are in a crowd that are throwing rocks and bricks at said bloodthirsty policemen, you are going to get hurt.
3. Like the Arabs, you have brainwashed your children to go fight for your land for you.
4. As in the past, you have run to settle the territories without checking to see if the people are with you, or in fact ignoring the fact that the people are against you.
5. Even more than in the past, the Israeli Jews have come to the realization that there will have to be some sort of territorial compromise of some sort, and creating NEW illegal settlements doesn't fit into that plan.
6. Couching your struggle in eschatological terms will turn more people away from your cause, and enable the media and others to demonize you even more easily.
7. On a more positive note, I admire your ideology, if only you would put as much effort into improving the lot of the everyday person, into educating the people that religion has a positive role to play in their lives then Israel would be a much better and safer place to live.

TRK

16 Comments:

At 2/08/2006 7:42 AM, Blogger Littleredridinghoodie said...

"On a more positive note, I admire your ideology, if only you would put as much effort into improving the lot of the everyday person, into educating the people that religion has a positive role to play in their lives then Israel would be a much better and safer place to live."

Kol Yisrael Areivim Zeh La Zeh, maybe they are suffering because of us... remember, every step they take every breath they make in Israel is a mitzvah. That means that the worst of them are getting 365 multiplied by how many moves they make mitzvot a day. Can the best of us that are out of Israel say the same? Maybe we are the erev Rav and they are the tzadikim? If marriage laws are based on property laws then how can we be "married" to the torah and the schina, bound by a contract of blood(-shed) and abandon her property?

 
At 2/08/2006 9:08 AM, Blogger Jameel @ The Muqata said...

TRK:

1. As a IDF soldier trained to kill, I would never have behaved that way towards another Jew. Sorry about that. In fact, I doubt I would have reacted that way towards an Arab.

2. And if you sit in a house with zero violence, its expected that a Jewish policeman will enter the home and start indicriminantly start smashing kids over the head? Have you seen the video? (its at joesettler.com)

3. Like the arabs? Brainwashed? The kids from my neighborhood were wounded from actions in point #2 above. Passive civil disobedience. I'm proud to teach that to my kids.

4. Amona was founded 4 years ago, at the behest of Ariel Sharon who said, "settle the hilltops -- whatever isn't settled on will be returned." This didn't happen overnight 2 weeks ago.

5. Again, Amona was not a new settlement outpost that was created 2 weeks ago. The "some" compromise you talk about it, according to Olmert and Kadima, means that everything except for 3 small blocs will be destroyed. (Ariel, Gush Etzion, and Maaleh Adumim). Thats quite a huge "compromise"...with over 180,000 settlers due to be evicted. myself included.

7. My ideaology puts the exact same emphasis on the land AND the people. Thats why I volunteer for MDA OUTSIDE of Yesha and all the other things I do.

Want to read about my community -- see it here

Its very easy to dish out points 1 through 7.

Can you look in the mirror and honestly say you are doing alot for Am Yisrael and Eretz Yisrael?

Don't admire my ideology. Do something about it yourself.

 
At 2/08/2006 12:14 PM, Blogger Masmida said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
At 2/08/2006 3:08 PM, Blogger Littleredridinghoodie said...

Masmida,

Great idea,

http://nbn.org.il/

Those guys can help you and you may even win, some pocket change...

 
At 2/08/2006 3:08 PM, Blogger Littleredridinghoodie said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
At 2/08/2006 3:38 PM, Blogger Masmida said...

Apologies, that was out of line.

But suffices to say, these are amoung all the religous groups the ones who believed most profoundly in the obligation of the religous people to make a positive contribution by joining the army, settling the land, working and being part of the whole. And it is these people whose whole world was

Am Yisrael b'eretz yisrael im torat yisrael

who are being alternately ignored betrayed and now villified by the government.

It is not a question of expediency or even public relations for them.

 
At 2/08/2006 7:07 PM, Blogger David_on_the_Lake said...

TRK..
I'm with you on this one...

 
At 2/09/2006 1:38 AM, Blogger Jameel @ The Muqata said...

TRK: I thought alot about this posting last night.

I'm not going to remove my comment as madmida did, but if I would rewrite it, I would leave it exactly as it is, and remove the lines

Can you look in the mirror and honestly say you are doing alot for Am Yisrael and Eretz Yisrael?

Don't admire my ideology. Do something about it yourself.


I'm not going to tell you to make aliya if you want to criticize whats going on here, but I will say that your posting is very sanctimonious and the way you address the settlers whose "ideology you admire" is demeaning.

Plus, your facts are wrong.

Other than that...it was an interesting "moan"

 
At 2/09/2006 1:38 AM, Blogger Jameel @ The Muqata said...

(and I meant, masmida...)

 
At 2/09/2006 9:15 AM, Blogger David_on_the_Lake said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
At 2/09/2006 3:31 PM, Blogger FrumGirl said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
At 2/09/2006 3:34 PM, Blogger FrumGirl said...

I dont know enough about the political part of Amona to comment on that. I do know that the extreme voilent way the police acted was absolutely unecessary. I agree with sentiment 7. If only....

 
At 2/09/2006 6:42 PM, Blogger dietgarage said...

i hate that i feel so distant from the homeland i want so badly to keep. thank G-d I will be there soon.


Am Yisrael b'eretz yisrael al pi torat yisrael

7. .....into educating the people that religion has a positive role to play in their lives then Israel would be a much better and safer place to live.

How so?
-dg

 
At 2/10/2006 5:54 AM, Blogger The Rabbi's Kid said...

Jameel,

Thanks for reminding me why I refuse to indulge in political debates with people who are way to the right of me. Truth is, I agree with 80-90% of what you will say and claim, yet that is not machriah, a point none of my right-wing friends chap, which is why they keep plugging the same patronizing unconvincing arguments at me.

Let's just say if I did live in Israel and had a vote, and was swinging between Kadimah and Likud, you would've swung me back to Kadimah. Good job.

 
At 2/12/2006 1:52 AM, Blogger Jameel @ The Muqata said...

TRK: I'm a bit confused by your bottom line. I find your arguments not based on fact and patronizing. You find my comments just as unconvincing...

For the sake of moving this forward, can you please tell me in points 1 - 7 what bothered you so much? If you feel that its too banal for your blog, I'd appreciate it by email.

At the end of the day, even the Knesset decided to have an investigation into the police violence at Amona.

Lastly; if you claim that you agree with 80-90% of what I wrote, then how exactly am I "way to the right of you"?

Shavua Tov.

 
At 2/20/2006 8:59 PM, Anonymous MissingMyLand said...

well, i dont know if you answered jameel's assertions or not, nut i definitly think he had several good points.
besides with, based on testimony and video footage, most of the youth beaten in Amona where not violent etc but were passivly resisting.
Clearly the Yassamniks are therefore largly to blame.
Dont sprout opinions without research.

 

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